February 25, 2018. A conversation at the Jewel Café in Edmonton.
Q1: It seems that what you are opening now changes everything. There’s a different momentum, a different law. Is that true?
John: In some way. It keeps going further.
Q1: It adds something, changes the whole being and the self.
John: It does.
Q1: It only moves by becoming, and it builds something that goes directly into all the levels. There’s no process involved in that coming to the surface.
John: Yes.
Q1: So to look at deeper levels is not the most I can do.
John: As soon as you know more then that’s what you come from which, of course, affects everything that follows.
Q1: And it’s by being taken. That’s the way.
John: Yes.
Q1: Sometimes it feels like unconsciousness. I don’t know how to sharpen in the way I’m used to in my mind.
John: That’s fine. That will change.
Q1: So being taken is what’s important. And then to see? That seems also a way to move.
John: It not going to be the kind of seeing you’re used to. That will change.
Q1: I don’t really see what I’m taken by. How do being taken and the seeing go together
John: It will change your seeing.
Q1: Then there’s a body coming in that hasn’t been here before.
John: Yes.
Q1: It seems unfathomable that it really lands here.
John: It is.
Q1: Is it all out of the plan?
John: Do you mean it’s not planned? It is.
Q1: What’s coming in is completely different from becoming a being or my being becoming my self?
John: Yes.
Q1: How is what I’m talking about related to being a being?
John: It has everything to do with being a being.
Q1: Because I’m coming from more than my being, and it changes all the time. I realized yesterday why you are everything. It’s because you became everything. You become more and more because you entered so much and became so much.
John: There’s more to it than that, but yes. It isn’t as simple as you are saying, but it’s also not something I’m describing yet.
Q1: In a way it is very simple. The mechanisms are simple.
John: You know and you are given. You’re given and you’re completely taken, so that’s very direct and simple. There’s nothing faster; there’s no process in it.
Q1: And it’s a multi-dimensional taking. The more you’re taken the more it takes you. Is it the more you want to be taken, the more it takes you?
John: What it takes of you completely honours to whatever degree you’re actually in it. It’s not going to take something that you’re not given in.
Q1: And it also doesn’t make sense to look at what I’m not given in.
John: That’s right. It’s not going to make a difference. That would be just a self-referencing. When you look at, through your self, what’s not given, that doesn’t mean anything; that just makes much of one’s self. Knowing, given and taken – that’s it.
Q1: And it’s most tangible in sexuality. Takenness is made manifest in some way.
John: Yes. It’s the last frontier. It’s what has the most distortion and it’s also what has the most potential. You come into the sexual fields the self can’t even access. You can’t find it or come into it from within your self. When you’re given within to what’s greater than your self, as you’re taken in that, it takes you right into the sexual fields.
Q1: Is it for me to discern that?
John: All you have is knowing, you’re given and you’re taken.
Q1: When you speak of the sexual fields then, in my self, I think I should have more awareness of that.
John: The sexual fields are not in your self.
Q1: No, but I could notice them, maybe?
John: Yes, you can. It’s not important, but yes you can. But if it slows you down in your givenness because you’re interested in what you’re registering in your self, there’s no value to that.
Q1: Is it the same as energy centres?
John: It’s different.
Q1: Sometimes I have a sense of something like a mirage opening in front of my energy centres. Is that the creation of something? When does it happen?
John: Through you knowing, given and taken without you confining that to a certain way, a certain circumstance or a certain idea.
Q1: I recently had a beautiful sense of a different way of thinking and could see my normal thinking. I thought I wouldn’t be able to do it again.
John: You can do it.
Q: How?
John: Knowing, given and taken, all compressed together so you’re not stopping to process anything in your self.
Q1: And I would stop it through control?
John: Control or interest. If it’s interesting to your self, you’ll slow it down: “oh, what is that?” You slow down and start to take in something that’s so interesting. It’s not worth the interest. It’s all going to grow and form behind you anyway, so you don’t need to slow down because of something that you’re realizing in your self. Compress knowing, given and taken as much as you can. Take away all the spaces in between them.
Q1: Then it’s just one movement, one thing.
John: It’s just awareness, gone. It’s all based on knowing, but it’s awareness gone. You can slow it down, break it down and see that there’s actually a sequence, but you don’t need to go through that sequence.
Q1: I just have to like it. I really like it.
John: Like it, gone … like it, gone.
Q1: In my day, on the surface I’m washing the dishes, but I’m also doing something completely different. I’m given to that level and can be gone in that level as well and it changes what I touch.
John: Yes. You’re coming from more, so there’s more that’s there in what you do.
Q1: It’s like a takeover.
John: It is.
Q1: And I don’t have any identity in this.
John: Nothing. It’s you, but there’s no familiarity in it. It’s all way beyond science fiction.
Q1: Do you have no familiarity in doing things?
John: There can be familiarity in it but what’s at the centre of it is not familiar. It’s just directly known and gone. As soon as you know, you’re gone. As soon as you know, you’re one with what you know, you turn into it. It’s not referenced by something that you’re already familiar with.
Someone’s going to come along, and they’re going to believe what they know, straight in: just gone, gone, gone. That’s one rhythm, and then when the rhythm shifts you’re going to come out believing what they know out into the surface, and into that also they’re going to be gone, gone, gone. And then it’s going to swish back and forth, and then there’s going to be a double swish. The self just turned into some District Nine thing: something beautiful and whole, but not what it was.
Q1: But the form you couldn’t necessarily identify?
John: That’s right.
Q1: Everything is changing all the time. You’ve changed too, but you seem to have a solid form.
John: That’s not it. I’m not what I look like.
Q1: It seems you need a very highly efficient brain to process and move on the surface level.
John: Your brain is made for that. You’re not processing on a mind level or a self level. You’re processing on a brain level, but that’s not an individual kind of processing.
Q1: It’s not an individual brain; it’s a whole, belonging-to-everybody brain.
John: Accessed by anything that’s gone. It’s a gone brain.
Q1: In the goneness there’s much power. I could sometimes think my body’s going to explode
John: It would be really good if your body exploded. Then you’ve really done it.
Q1: I love when you say I can forget the steps because that’s a self thing. It puts me into a different realm to forget everything.
John: It really is a brain function. It’s not a mind function. Don’t limit your brain to your mind: it’s too slow.
Q1: A brain function that also has something to do with the body.
John: Your body is made for your brain. Your brain is made for you, but a you that’s way beyond. The more that you come from what is beyond anything familiar, the more of your brain you’ll come into and the more you’ll use your brain.
Q1: Nothing else really interests me. It’s the beyond that I’m drawn to and that is everything and I know to be taken by that. I feel sometimes that I’m erased – my body is erased.
John: The faster you can erase it the better. As soon as you realize, erase it.
Q1: I’m not to realize?
John: Realization is fine. You know that Men in Black device? Someone sees something that is too much for him to see and he holds up the thing and goes ‘click’ and it’s all gone? You have one of those. What you are is awareness, and awareness gone, and basically you push that button and you’re gone at the same time. What enables you to go is that you don’t need all of the information you’ve just realized and collected. As soon as you see, erase it. It’s what lets you be gone. If the information is of interest to you, if you think it’s going to help you, you can’t be gone. You’re grounded in your self by something that you perceive in your self of value, but there’s nothing more valuable than awareness gone: gone into what it knows. Erase everything you come into as fast as you can
It’s a little like the movie Star Wars, when they go into warp speed. So your first gone is that you’ve taken off and you’ve left wherever you are. As soon as you’re gone, you press the next button. It’s another level of gone, and all of a sudden you’re warp speed and you’re really gone. So every time you erase, that enables you to go into a next level of gone. You’re not going to lose anything; it all develops behind you. Everything you erase is not gone. Really, it’s just gone from the holding in your self or from your sense of individuality, but the sense of individuality is not real. The faster that you can erase everything, the closer you come to real individuality.
Real individuality doesn’t register as individuality. Real individuality is your capacity as awareness, as soon as you know, to be gone without a process, without engaging anything, without having anything or getting anywhere. You just know and you’re gone. As soon as you know, you’ve turned into it. You’re not slowing down for anything. What enables that is real individuality. What you lose in that is every familiar sense of individuality. That individuality isn’t real.
Q1: How would that individuality show?
John: How gone you can be. When you’re always gone into what you know and someone says “as an individual, how do you do that?” And you say “well, that’s the real individuality”.
Q1: Is the sameness also in the individuality? I loved when you said we are all the same.
John: The capacity to be the same is individual. Real individuality takes you into sameness. Real individuality doesn’t make you an individual.
Q1: So individuality expresses a sameness
John: Yes. Within real individuality you’ve given up all specialness. You’re not special anymore – that’s long gone. Your self isn’t special; you are not special, and all of that was just, really, nothing. Gone is special. Being erased – that’s special: that’s real individuality. You’re able, as an individual awareness, to step into that. The way that we relate to individuality is not stepping into being erased and gone: that’s acquiring, collecting, having a sense in one’s self of your specialness and your importance and everything that you’ve grown into and come into, so it’s all about collecting – collecting and building for what you can keep. It’s not real.
Q2: You make it sound as if real individuality is the ability to choose.
John: Yes: to be able to choose nothing, to choose nothing over something because you know the nothing is real and the something is not all real. Real individuality is your capacity, right now, to disappear and turn into nothing.
Q1: I’m sensing a consciousness field around me, but that’s already not goneness.
John: You don’t need your idea about that.
Q1: But when you say to erase that, I’m embedded in that field.
John: So then you are that instead of how you can hold that in your mind. You don’t need to hold it in your mind; you don’t need to remember. So from a mental perspective, as soon as you know, erase it.
Q1: And from a being perspective?
John: From a being perspective, when you erased it, then your mind is out of the way so all of this being power is available to go further within, or to really come out. It’s all you, but not in the way that you’ve known as you, an individual.
Q1: That unlocks a lot of speed! It goes so fast.
John: Yes. That’s how … and then faster. Faster is easier.
Q3: Sometimes when someone asks you a question there’s a pause, there’s something happening, and then you say something. How does that relate to fast, gone?
John: As soon as someone asks, I’m gone. The pause isn’t so that I can be gone. The pause is that I’m gone and then, way behind me, I’m processing what I am going to answer of everything that’s opening. There’s a lot involved in that. I’m taking care of a lot.
Q3: So there is a time element where you’re having to discern everything that’s opened up?
John: Not in the goneness. It’s both at the same time: gone in what is timeless – without time, and without space, and at the same time behind – but it’s all really here. It’s all being processed. Form is being made and I’m doing that.
Q4: It’s quantum
John: The relationship in it all is quantum, what makes it all work.
Q3: I’m not sure I get the movement you’re talking about.
John: I’m not sure anyone can get it!
Q3: It sounds so attractive. It’s freedom from the self.
John: As soon as it’s attractive, that’s an element of gone. It’s like the innocence of a child hearing something and liking it. There’s a goneness in that. It’s already a goneness.
Q3: Where does thinking happen, for you?
John: It’s a different level of thinking.
Q3: What about all the decisions you have to make, the things you have to respond to? How do you do it? Where do you go to?
John: A super processor. It is a level of mind but it’s not mind in a way that a self can relate to. For a familiar kind of mind it’s too fast.
Q4: Does it always start with knowing, given, gone?
John: That’s the part that matters. That’s the magical key. Everything else follows.
Q4: It seems that words are in the way.
John: Yes. Words work where the words communicate the resonance. As soon as you get the resonance of it, erase all the words.
Q4: Part of our connectivity with you is expression, so how does that fit?
John: You’re better off to be gone than putting together what you’re realizing. It’s going to come together anyway.
(to Q1:) Don’t slow down for anything. Everything that is within your control will keep up with you. Responsibility will keep up with you. Not slowing down for anything will make you more responsible, but you won’t be about ‘being responsible’.
Q1: It’s really good that you said that. I just have knowing left.
John: Yes.
Q1: I use my mind to orient my self.
John: It’s too slow.
Q1: It makes me more naked. I feel stripped bare.
John: You’re stripped right down to what is real. You’re stripped of the illusion, so that makes you feel vulnerable in your self. For you to be stripped of all illusion you would feel so out of control.
Q1: That’s just the feeling level.
John: It’s a nervous system thing. It’s a mind thing. It isn’t real.
Q1: It’s safe in between, before the nervous system changes?
John: If you’re not gone into, your nervous system won’t shift. You can’t shift your nervous system and have control of that. You’ll lose all sense of control of that, which brings your nervous system under the control of something that has nothing to do with your nervous system: real control.
Q1: I love that something else takes over. I love being taken over by the beyond. I start to disappear.
John: When you start to disappear then you’re starting to be really there. When you start to disappear, you’re coming into power and you’re coming into control.
Q1: But I don’t feel that, at all.
John: In your nervous system, the other way, you’re losing control. The reality is that really, you are coming into control. When you can control being able to step into nothing, regardless of everything that’s something, that’s powerful, that’s real control: your power to be nothing in the midst of everything that seems as something, and then the further control to that is nothing moving everything that is something. Whether the something is illusory or real, nothing can move it.
All you need is the resonance of it. As soon as you hear it, and you resonate, erase it. Thinking about it isn’t going to help you. Being gone into the resonance – that’s it. As you go into the disappearing, the love of disappearing also goes away. So then you are simply disappearing. Loving it is fine. That’ll go away. It’s very sweet. It’s good, it’s real … and you don’t need it.
Q1: There are so many pitfalls.
John: Not really. For goneness and the use of the eraser, what pitfalls?
Q1: Thank you so much, John. Inside I always bow down.
John: Pay it all forward into what’s gone. What remains is gone, at home in the mundane. What that looks like is functional and responsible, but it isn’t – it’s all gone. Gone at home in the mundane isn’t the mundane – it’s gone. It makes the mundane really there and opened up in a way that only gone can open. For everything other than gone, the mundane is like a prison.
Q1: It makes the mundane unusual.
John: Very usual and very unusual. Gone in the mundane makes the mundane beyond freedom. The mundane, for you, is flow. It doesn’t look like flow because you’re doing things. What’s engaged in the doing is gone. If you’re a little bit gone, as soon as you touch something it’s not the same. It’s the mundane and you’re doing something, and it’s not the same. So the more gone you are, the more that everything of the mundane opens. Reality opens right into the mundane. Then, in moving the mundane, you really are building something else – it’s real to you but its unseen to those who are not gone. Gone can see it. Everything that’s actually there becomes known to you, instead of having a relationship with form, as you’ve known it, through it all being confined to your experience of it. The reality of form opens up to you.
Q1: So form responds? Is that part of the magicalness? Everything starts to communicate and be alive in a way that has never been before?
John: It always was. You just couldn’t see it. The mundane is magical.
Q1: And the intimacy is a part of the becoming?
John: It’s the flow of it. Reality is all intimate. That intimacy, the intimacy of reality, is what opens up your humanness. Humanness is really meant to be as much as everything, the everything. Humanness is meant to open up into all sameness.
Q1: So as a real human you are everything. There’s no difference.
John: Yes. But that’s not human in the way that we relate to human. Everyone is mixed up. The humanness and the self are all bundled together and mixed up so that people can’t see the difference. Then, within it all being mixed up, humanity is judged as being every human being alive, and whatever any human is in is part of humanity, so humanity is, in a sense, a big mess – but it’s still humanity. That’s not really humanity; most of that isn’t human.
Q1: But the frequency of real humanness is still present everywhere.
John: Yes, even though in a person it may be present .5%, sometimes 10%. 10% is pretty high.
Q1: And through givenness and being taken that’s all going to develop by itself.
John: Yes, in the same way that nothing develops on a self level as well as innocence. As soon as there’s a bit of a separation in a small child from innocence, the development of that self is immediately suffering. When there’s full innocence, the movement of that innocence within that self brings about such a high level of self-development without there being any focus on self-development. It’s natural.
The fastest way to develop is by erasing everything as quickly as possible. Using the eraser cleans your mind. All that’s actually erased is just illusion. It’s your relationship to thought – what is illusory in that relationship gets erased. The capacity to think increases.
Q1: What I sense in erasing is that feeling is heightened. Reality stands out very much more.
John: Erasing takes away your blindness. It doesn’t erase anything that’s real.